How slippery moralities are, how they circle and thin and change with circumstance
In this third chapter from Chiamaka’s POV, the pressure of having kids is emphasised again. Do you think we will progress to a point as a society where this pressure won’t be placed on young women?
With the conversation of marriage and children being brought up, do you think Chia has sort of closed herself off from these things because she only really loved Nnamdi?
Was there ever a time where you ended things because you “could no longer that exquisite ache of wanting to love a lovely person that you do not love”?
Do you think in Omelogor we see a person who is almost destined for great things but gets lost when they finish school or the last thing that consumed most of their time?
In her relationship with Chuka, do you think Chia treated Chuka similar to have Darnell treated her?
We all felt excitement when Chika received the call about her book. It seemed for a moment that her work was going somewhere. The first red flag should have been when Katie wanted to replace “African” with “Black” in the title because she felt African was too ‘limiting’. The second red flag was when Katie wanted what was meant to be a personal and lighthearted travel book to focus primarily on current affairs in Congo and Sudan. What do you think this says about a society that capitalises on the struggles of the culture and the hardships of its people instead of what actually encompasses the culture?
In the beginning of Dream Count, Chia expresses her need to be known. In the later half of her chapters, it seems she may have found that feeling in Chuka. She talks about their passion and sharing of interests, which she never felt with Darnell. Why do you think this goes away for her? Do you think that even in these moments where Chia feels like she is being honest, she wasn’t?
Do you think dreams serve a purpose?
Was Febechi right in saying that Chia was “never grateful that [Chuka] loved [her]”?
What do you think of Chia’s relationship with the married Englishman? She also never shares his name. Do you think this is because it might have been the second time she had truly fallen for someone?
11 responses to “Dream Count – Day Two”
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1. How slippery moralities are, how they circle and thin and change with circumstance. In this third chapter from Chiamaka’s POV, the pressure of having kids is emphasised again. Do you think we will progress to a point as a society where this pressure won’t be placed on young women?
I would love to be optimistic, however I do not see this happening. Society is regressing in attitudes towards women, homemaking and child-bearing. Even Chia’s mother changes her attitude from wanting a traditional nuclear-family setup for her daughter to just emphasising having children. It is sad how society will keep failing in this regard: just as more time is focused on weddings than actual marriage, the onus of child-bearing is unfairly female-centric.2. With the conversation of marriage and children being brought up, do you think Chia has sort of closed herself off from these things because she only really loved Nnamdi?
Chia might really believe that she only ever really loved Nnamdi, but this is not necessarily true. I think she has idealised and idolised Nnamdi, not because he was her only soulmate, but because he is unattainable. Their relationship at 17 was perfect: 2 teenagers, no life experience and no problems – it was idyllic then and will continue to be so, without contradiction.3. Was there ever a time where you ended things because you “could no longer that exquisite ache of wanting to love a lovely person that you do not love”?
No. But, I do understand the feeling.4. Do you think in Omelogor we see a person who is almost destined for great things but gets lost when they finish school or the last thing that consumed most of their time?
At the moment, it looks that way. We see the changes in Omelogor: from self-assured and almost brash to suddenly making up excuses (like Darnell), putting her mistakes at the door of others. She has even changed the way she talks. It might be a phase or a way to assimilate. Only time will tell…5. In her relationship with Chuka, do you think Chia treated Chuka similar to have Darnell treated her?
Well, that’s interesting… I hadn’t realised that her hesitation to marry and settle down mimicks her relationship with Darnell! Chuka was open with her from the beginning, but now Chia is the one who is noncommittal. She keeps him at arms-length as she too once was.6. We all felt excitement when Chia received the call about her book. It seemed for a moment that her work was going somewhere. The first red flag should have been when Katie wanted to replace “African” with “Black” in the title because she felt African was too ‘limiting’. The second red flag was when Katie wanted what was meant to be a personal and lighthearted travel book to focus primarily on current affairs in Congo and Sudan. What do you think this says about a society that capitalises on the struggles of the culture and the hardships of its people instead of what actually encompasses the culture?
Despite evidence to the contrary, many still believe that Africa is one-dimensional and poverty-stricken. Poverty-porn still sells because some cannot comprehend the beauty in our diversity: Africa must always be poor and in need of saving! No other narrative is plausible.
Society will always create hierarchies: a comparative system where somebody, somewhere (Africa) is worse off than you are so that you feel better and more important.7. In the beginning of Dream Count, Chia expresses her need to be known. In the later half of her chapters, it seems she may have found that feeling in Chuka. She talks about their passion and sharing of interests, which she never felt with Darnell. Why do you think this goes away for her? Do you think that even in these moments where Chia feels like she is being honest, she wasn’t?
Does it really go away? I don’t think it was really there. Chia is good at seeing what she wants to see. I believe she wanted to see the love that she wanted – shared interests and passions. I believe she just finally let go of her delusion. I am just not sure whether she is just an unreliable narrator or she truly believed her own lies.8. Do you think dreams serve a purpose?
Of course! Dreams keep us reaching for more. They make life worth living. Having a dream (however unattainable) gives you hope for the future.9. Was Febechi right in saying that Chia was “never grateful that [Chuka] loved [her]”?
Sadly, yes. However, love should never necessitate gratitude! Chia – like every human being – deserves to be loved without conditions.10. What do you think of Chia’s relationship with the married Englishman? She also never shares his name. Do you think this is because it might have been the second time she had truly fallen for someone?
There are probably reasons Chia never shares the name of her married lover, but I don’t think love is one of them. She is now fully in control of the narrative: how much to share and how much not to share. If this is indicative of love, I am a bit disappointed in our girl: she always wants what she can’t have. Her Englishman was cagey from the beginning and this is what piqued her curiosity. The relationship wouldn’t have lasted even if he ever left his wife. -
1. I think it will be very dependent on their culture.
2. No I just think she needs the right man.
3. Nope
4. I think Omelogar can be very over analytical, she may also be a little lost in life.
5. Chia wasn’t as bad as Darnell, but she did lead Chuku on for a long time.
6. It’s not something I subscribe too, but unfortunately people seem to like the negative more than the happy positive, they like to see the drama in peoples lives.
7. I don’t think she really loved him, he was more a friend to her with common interests, which lead to great discussions. This was the intimate part of their relationship.
8. Yes dreams have a purpose they can set you on path if you so choose.
9. Yes because she walked away from the relationship so easily.
10. I think she never shares his name to protect him. She was in love with him and that’s why she was happy to have him whenever she could. She was hoping for more. -
1. I don’t know, I think even if the general unrelated society doesn’t your own family will. I don’t think it will ever not be a thing. Everybody makes it their business.
2. I think that when you get to an age that is deemed older, you kind of give up a bit and lose a bit of hope. No one is going to measure up to her first and true love.
3. No, all my break ups have been “the end”
4. Not necessarily lost, but consumed by what needs her attention at the time, and a baby is very time consuming, being a wife and mother can lead to loss of your identity. Again it comes back to society and the pressures and expectations of women.
5. I don’t think she loved him, she loved the idea of him, and she did let him go. She wasn’t dishonest with him, she didn’t belittle him and tear away pieces of him. She set him free.
6. It’s the bad side of sales and marketing, society is told what to like and want, and bad news and struggles are far more sensational than good news and happy headlines, good times are not considered newsworthy, or worthy of telling. And that’s unfortunate. But on the other side of the coin if only good things are mentioned then it’s seen as insensitive and dismissive of hard times.
7. She’s likely still finding her self and in pursuit of that her needs and wants change and are no longer being met.
8. I don’t really dream, when I do it’s mostly about the daily grind. But yes, I think some dreams can be about the future and serve as a warning.
9.No, I don’t think she was ungrateful. Febechi was jealous. And why must she be grateful to have been loved, I don’t think an emotion/feeling is something to have to be grateful for.
10. I didn’t approve. It’s not my place to give approval, but cheating is not something I condone. I don’t think she shared his name because she knew that. She had guilt.
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I don’t think so. In some countries its encouraged because in the disproportionate figures between new deaths vs deaths. In order to survive as a species there will always be this pressure. On another note, I do think that sometimes the desire to be a mother is fueled by a desire to not be alone, what you create will always be of you, in this way, somehow, you will never be alone.
This is such an important question, re: how society profits from the struggles of others. I don’t have an answer but I do think we often rationalise our decisions. We shroud our ill-intent in phrases like ‘this is important’, ‘people need to hear about this’, ‘people are dying’, when in reality we don’t actually care.
Gosh, Chuka was such a promising man, I wished she would land up with other but I also understand why she chose not to. It is difficult because people who treat us so well are not common,then should accepting their rarity be the price of our happiness? I don’t know, I don’t think so…
The situation regarding the Englishman is an interesting one, I think Chia respected him first, he was someone she could challenge her views against. Someone who genuinely loved travel and appreciated the art of travel writing, I think this helped her fall in love with him. He just got it. Sometimes people just get it and it clicks. You can’t prepare for such situations.
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1. I truly hope we one day get there but as for now I’d say we’re still so far from it. And unfortunately for as long as it’s done to one generation the one after sees that and wants to do the same when they are older. It just seems like a never ending cycle.
2. Throughout Chia’s POV I truly felt like I don’t know here because what a girl and wow love made her do some weird things. But I also just think she was rarely ever loved right so it’s normal for one to not rush thinking about children and starting a family when you can’t even get a man to act right.
3. I don’t think so.
4. She is destined for greatness but sometimes life just isn’t that clear cut and I feel like that’s what happened in her case. Though she is strong willed enough to make a come back.
5. Truly I think it was a trauma response. She was just as toxic to Chuka as Darnell was to her. Though I also didn’t really trust Chuka something about him was off. I wasn’t too sure if he’s really a good day.
6. I don’t like how this always creates one narrative which is so far out from the truth. The the same thing as how most tv shoes and movies will mostly portray women as crazy, irrational, needing a man to survive, can’t keep a job or a relationship. Like why are we always made to look like we are meant for nothing more than suffering. It’s the same thing as people outside of Africa having the same picture of Africa being one big safari.
7. I just think she’s been hurt so much that she just didn’t know any better. She knew that Chuka was what she had been wanting but it was probably hard to believe that he was genuine.
8. I definitely believe that dreams serve a great purpose.
9. Definitely. I felt like “girl you finally have someone that seems to like you and is doing all the things you want in a man, so why are you not meeting him halfway?”
10. Not sure why she didn’t share the name that whole interaction was weird from the very beginning because why wasn’t the name shared before we knew that he was married it’s almost as if she wanted to keep him anonymous from the very beginning. I don’t even think she really liked him. I just think she liked the thrill of it all. -
1. *sighs* Women will always be expected to give birth—it’s like that’s the only function we have in society.
2. I honestly understand where she’s coming from, but no, I don’t think it’s because of Nnamdi. She just wants to be happily married. Marriage can feel like a burden if you do it out of duty rather than love—especially with someone you don’t actually like.
3. Not end things, but I almost gave a guy a chance out of pity. Just before I suggested that I was ready to go out with him, I realised I didn’t even like him like that—it would’ve been a boring relationship.
4. Maybe she just discovered a different kind of greatness. But the way Chiamaka describes her, it does feel like she was destined for something bigger and just lost herself a little along the way.
5. Not at all. Even though she treated their relationship as more platonic, it was still miles better than the way Darnell treated her.
6. That scene reminded me of Seven Days in June, where they discuss how the publishing industry often rejects Black stories that don’t centre suffering. Society is the same—some cultures have been struggling for decades, so people refuse to see any reality where those cultures are depicted as anything beyond their hardships.
7. Like she said, Chuka never really engaged with her work—he only ever responded with the same two words. Maybe she got tired of him pretending to be interested. Even if you’re not a talker, you can still ask someone to share what they’ve been up to and just listen.
8. I’m not sure. All I know is that they fuel you to do your best in order to attain them.
9. Being grateful for someone’s love isn’t enough. I think what Chia really wanted was a deeper connection with Chuka—something beyond what they already had.
10. Chiamaka surely loves what she can’t have. I was so disappointed when she didn’t walk away, but at least it wasn’t the Darnell kind of love. Isn’t it possible she never knew his name? He shared so little about his personal life.
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1. I personally don’t feel that we will progress where pressure won’t be placed on young women to have children, it may just be less pressure if you are younger, but I think there will always be some type of pressure due to women’s biological clocks.
2. I do think Chia has sort of closed herself a little bit from marriage and children because only really loved Nnamdi but I also think she is still learning to love herself.
3. I can’t say that in a relationship I have ended things because I “could no longer that exquisite ache of wanting to love a lovely person that you do not love” but I have ended friendships because of this.
4. Omelogor definitely represents a person who is destined for great things but gets lost, as I think this happens to a lot of people and she is a character that is lost herself.
5. I don’t think Chia treated Chuka similar to how Darnell treated her, but Chia did lead him on for too long but I don’t think Chia did anything maliciously.
6. I think that society that capitalises off the struggles of the culture and the hardships of its people instead of what actually encompasses the culture, I mean why can’t we learn about a culture or a place first before we have to know and discuss the struggles. I think hardships that cultures or countries have gone through should be discussed but it should not be the primary focus.
7. I think that Chia came out of a toxic relationship and was learning how to be in a healthy relationship again as well as learning more about herself .
8. Dreams definitely serve a purpose, whether it is your dreams and desires or your subconscious dreams when you sleep.
9. I don’t think Febechi was entirely wrong in saying that Chia was “never grateful that [Chuka] loved [her]” but I don’t she maliciously did it.
10. I think Chia’s relationship with the married Englishman, was a bit of a learning curb for Chia and that I think she never shared his name because of the guilt she had over him cheating on his family.
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1. I am hopeful that we can get there, but not for a very very VERY long time….. while society has progressed (and in some ways, regressed) around gender norms and the nuclear family ideal, the belief that every woman needs to have children in order to be fulfilled remains strong.
2. I don’t think so. We don’t yet know the full story of Nmandi so I can’t say if what she shared with him was really love. Her feelings for the ‘Englishman’ did seem like love, but I find it interesting that she never explicitly names him. Too painful a memory? A truly lost love or moment she’d rather forget?
3. Yes.
4. I think it depends on how you define greatness. Omelogor is a force to be reckoned with, but at the the end of the day she is just as human as everyone else.
5. Hmm… while she may have treated Chuka unfairly, it’s obvious that she did TRY. Her intentions were not the same as Darnell’s. Chia truly wanted to love Chuka. Partly because she felt like it was what he ‘deserved’ for being so wonderful to her and partly because he fit the criteria of ‘perfect’ marriage-material man. I think equating Chia and Darnell would be an unfair comparison.
6. Oh this is something I feel SO PASSIONATELY about. Through my experience studying English Literature and being around SA literature communities, I see this pressure for books by people of colour to be about some kind of pain/suffering. We are only interesting or profound if we can tell a story that evokes pity – or at least that’s what it often feels like.
7. Hmm this is a difficult one to answer. I suppose that even if Chuka knew her, he could never really understand ALL of her. And while he looked good on paper, he was not fulfilling her truest desires for love.
8. I see other commenters interpreting ‘dream’ in different senses…. not sure which exact one is implied, but I believe that both do serve a purpose! Even if the purpose is not anything grand or exceptional.
9. No, and I do not know where Febechi gets the audacity 😐
10. I found their story heartbreaking. Because yes, it looks like she really loved him and he was definitely unhappy in his marriage, but their relationship was bound for tragedy when he chose to deceive her from their very first meeting. Regardless of his intentions, he clearly hid the fact that he was married and strung her along for so long.
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1. The hope is that eventually as a society we will progress to a place where this pressure is no longer placed on young women, but then again, we are all cogs in this capitalist machine so what are those odds?
2. Losing Nnamdi has definitely left its scars but I do not necessarily think she closed herself off from the idea of marriage and children.
3. No I have never been in such a situation.
4. Possibly, yes.
5. I don’t believe she treats Chuka the way Darnell treated her. He was mean, condescending, hot and cold. Chia does not treat him this was. But maybe in the sense that she was using Chuka as a placeholder until the person she believed to be the love of her life came along, maybe?
6. Black pain sells.
7. I don’t think Chia was being honest with herself during her relationship with Chuka, it was as if she was trying to convince herself that this was as good as things were gonna get for her.
8. Yes. I think their purpose is to guide us to our life’s mission.
9. I don’t this she was never grateful; I just think she may have taken him for granted. It was unfair and a bit selfish of her to consciously settle for him when she knew she wanted more.
10. She was scared of being in yet another relationship that did not work out the way she wanted. It is why we are never told his name and why she so desperately held onto that relationship even when she found out he was married. -
1. The pressure on young women to have kids won’t disappear due to our obsession with the biological clock and the notion that a woman’s purpose is to bring life into the world.
2. I think when you get older and things start to seem as though you are unable to find what you’ve always wanted in a man, it is likely that you will start looking back on what you missed/ lost in the past. so I wouldn’t say Chia’ close herself off because she only loved Nnamdi.
3. Fortunately, no, but I understand how someone might reach that decision.
4. I do think Omelogor is destined for greatness, from how Chia’ describes her, she sounds like an overly analytical-being and that has its own downside.
5. I hadn’t looked at the situation from this lens, quite interesting, thinking of how Darnell was quite evasive in their relationship and looking at how Chia’ was not upfront with her intentions whereas Chuka was clear from the beginning. She might not have been as extensive as Darnell was, but it definitely mirrors his ways.
6. People like the idea of Africa being distraught and in need of rescue, so if you are to sell them Africa that is not of their narrative forget about your sales. African poverty sells in Western media because it taps into a narrative of charity and salvation, perpetuating a stereotype of Africa as a continent in need of rescue.
7. I think yearned to be known so much so she mistakenly found what she was yearning for in something that was not truly it. Basically, she was delusional.
8. Dreams serve a great purpose, offering hope and motivation to strive for more.
9. One doesn’t need to be grateful for having been loved. Those who choose to love do so voluntarily, and it’s okay to decline or end that love if desired.
10. Chia’ seems to love what she can’t have, which may be a delusional pattern. The Englishman’s cagey nature and unnamed status may be intentional to protect his identity.
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1. No, people lack boundaries and are insensitive, and they feel entitled to other people’s life why I don’t know!?
2. I’m not really sure, things change when you meet the right person.
3. Lol yes
4. I think Omelogor is one of those people who feel like nothing they do or accomplish will ever be enough.
5. Yes, I mean she lead that poor man on!
6. Society doesn’t care about things that does affect them, even if it’s affecting others. They only care about their own needs and making money even at the cost of others.
7. I think Chia was still trying to figure out herself too bad she did it while hurting the man who loved her.
8. Yes
9. Honestly she didn’t fight for that relationship at all, but Febechi was dead wrong.
10. I really annoyed and bored to the core! They both know better please
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